Another Pattern 1914 Mk.I* (T) / No.3 MkI* (T) saved

[Seaforth72]

Another Australian issue marked Pattern 1914 Mk.I* (T) / No.3 MkI* (T) sniper rifle has been found in Canada and it is undergoing restoration.

The rifle had been sporterized by removing the scope, rings and bases, but fortunately the barrel and action were not damaged other than plugging the two holes for the front scope mounts. The wood had been cut back and sanded. The rifle was found with the Fine sight still in place, but the battle sight had been modified, to an open topped battle sight, presumably by a civilian owner. This rifle has all of the important serial numbers matching (the body, barrel and bolt). Rifle was made in 1917 and converted in 1918.

I am now seeking an original Pattern / Model 1918 sniper scope made by The Periscopic Prism Company Limited in the UK, ideally with original rings for the P14 (T). As well I am seeking the scope mounts that permanently attach to the rifle, and a correct canvas scope case, preferably all original of course.

The altered FINE sight has now been replaced with an undamaged original Fine sight. Both are Winchester sights and both had the old serial numbers cancelled.

The furniture has been replaced with an original set of Patt’14 Mk.I* Winchester furniture off of another Patt’14 Mk.I* rifle as there were no differences other than the removal of the long range “volley” sights.

A Pattern 1908 web sling dated 1916 has been installed. By coincidence it is an ANZAC one, marked N/|\Z.

Oddly, bayonets were apparently issued with this model of sniper rifle, and it is now mated with a Pattern 1913 Winchester made bayonet with an unusual history of combat use according to the grandson of the soldier.

The blank brass butt disc was still in place in the sporterized stock and so it was transferred to the replacement stock which still had its own brass disc.

The rifle has on its left side, the 1926 and earlier Australian issue mark of an “/|\” inside a “D”.

On the right side of the rear sight housing, the rifle’s serial number was stamped, without the “W” prefix. From what I can see in a research database that I have created of Patt’14 (T) serial numbers, the “W” prefix for the relocated serial number was only added on the Irish Contract rifles. Added in front of the relocated serial number on this example is a three digit number separated from the main serial number by a period. Above this number combination is the 1926 and later “D/|\D” Australian Government property mark. Above that is a “2” indicating 2nd class stores.

2
D/|\D
248.191781

I believe that this translates as rifle W191781 and assigned Australian number 248.
Skwan’s Patt’14 Mk.I* (T) has prefix number 260. If I am correct, this suggests that Australia had at least 260 Patt’14 Mk.I* (T) rifles on issue.

This renumbering would be similar to New Zealand’s adding their own serial numbers to No.4 rifles that they held. It is also similar to the common practice of armies to assign their own numbering system for vehicles, rather than using the manufacturers’ serial numbers (VIN) which can vary drastically in length and composition. Britain with its WD number in WWII, Canada with its DND numbers and later CAR and CFR vehicle numbers, Australia with its ARN etc.

Research is ongoing.

[Edited slightly 2023-11-18] GB

Information

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[Promo]

Colin, would you mind showing how the original F-Sight was modified that you had replaced?


Small detail I noticed, fine lines where the rifle serial number had been applied. Alignment for when they were originally stamped there. Interesting, had not seen this before. Makes me certain this rifle still has the original finish.


Additionally, would you mind showing the areas where the bases were installed?

[Seaforth72]

Photos added to my original posting.

More photos and descriptions are now on my web site https://captainstevens.com/military/...sniper-rifles/

[Promo]

The F-Sight you have removed could be repaired. I'd either butcher another sight to cut off and micro weld to the sight of yours, or simply remake the top half and also micro weld. For its value definitely worth saving.


Thanks for the additional pictures! Nice by the former owner to keep the screws from the rear base in place . It looks to be a great restoration piece. Just be patient and I'm sure you'll find a scope with rings; bases you may use a set of reproduction bases; I heard someone in the UK would be in the process to get a few made for restorations such as your rifle.



PS: on your website you have a small typo at the first pic. You say "Patt’13 Mk. I* W" for the donor rifle - I'd assume you have "killed" a Pattern 1914 and not a P.13 trials rifle, right?

[Seaforth72]

Promo -

My typographical error in photo caption on my web site has been corrected.

Thank you for the tip on the micro welding. I have a spare standard P14 rear sight available as a donor of the battle sight for transplanting.

I am asking around among advanced collectors for the parts that I need. Accumounts are fine I suppose but I really want to restore this rare rifle with all original parts if possible, so that it is all correct, but most likely with a mismatched Model 1918 scope. Of course, if I can find and obtain Model 1918 scope serial number 191781, all the better!

[Promo]

Colin, there was one guy here on this forum who did full reproduction sets for the P.14, both rings and bases, and you could even pick if you wanted the PPCo diameter or Aldis diameter. I think I found the contact details to him. Will ask him if there are any sets left and let you know.

[mrclark303]

Cracking find and excellent project rifle, having an original No3 sniper is but a unreachable dream for most....

[sexyfishsticks]

Another Australian issue marked Pattern 1914 Mk.I* (T) / No.3 MkI* (T) sniper rifle has been found in Canada and it is undergoing restoration.

The rifle had been sporterized by removing the scope, rings and bases, but fortunately the barrel and action were not damaged other than plugging the two holes for the front scope mounts. The wood had been cut back and sanded. The rifle was found with the Fine sight still in place, but the battle sight had been modified, to an open topped battle sight, presumably by a civilian owner. This rifle has all of the important serial numbers matching (the body, barrel and bolt). Rifle was made in 1917 and converted in 1918.

I am now seeking an original Pattern / Model 1918 sniper scope made by The Periscopic Prism Company Limited in the UK, ideally with original rings for the P14 (T). As well I am seeking the scope mounts that permanently attach to the rifle, and a correct canvas scope case, preferably all original of course.

The altered FINE sight has now been replaced with an undamaged original Fine sight. Both are Winchester sights and both had the old serial numbers cancelled.

The furniture has been replaced with an original set of Patt’14 Mk.I* Winchester furniture off of another Patt’14 Mk.I* rifle as there were no differences other than the removal of the long range “volley” sights.

A Pattern 1908 web sling dated 1916 has been installed. By coincidence it is an ANZAC one, marked N/|\Z.

Oddly, bayonets were apparently issued with this model of sniper rifle, and it is now mated with a Pattern 1913 Winchester made bayonet with an unusual history of combat use according to the grandson of the soldier.

The blank brass butt disc was still in place in the sporterized stock and so it was transferred to the replacement stock which still had its own brass disc.

The rifle has on its left side, the 1926 and earlier Australian issue mark of an “/|\” inside a “D”.

On the right side of the rear sight housing, the rifle’s serial number was stamped, without the “W” prefix. From what I can see in a research database that I have created of Patt’14 (T) serial numbers, the “W” prefix for the relocated serial number was only added on the Irish Contract rifles. Added in front of the relocated serial number on this example is a three digit number separated from the main serial number by a period. Above this number combination is the 1926 and later “D/|\D” Australian Government property mark. Above that is a “2” indicating 2nd class stores.

2
D/|\D
248.191781

I believe that this translates as rifle W191781 and assigned Australian number 248.
Skwan’s Patt’14 Mk.I* (T) has prefix number 260. If I am correct, this suggests that Australia had at least 260 Patt’14 Mk.I* (T) rifles on issue.

This renumbering would be similar to New Zealand’s adding their own serial numbers to No.4 rifles that they held. It is also similar to the common practice of armies to assign their own numbering system for vehicles, rather than using the manufacturers’ serial numbers (VIN) which can vary drastically in length and composition. Britain with its WD number in WWII, Canada with its DND numbers and later CAR and CFR vehicle numbers, Australia with its ARN etc.

Research is ongoing.

[Edited slightly 2023-11-18] GB

I have an original scope with mounts, I am located in Australia

Kind regards
G

[Riter]

Bravo!