Fake Canadian No 4(T)

[Surpmil]

That’s interesting Terry. I haven’t heard about that yet. Do you know who it is?
A number of years ago I saw a fellow selling what looked like a table full of NO4T’s at the Sidney B.C. show. On close inspection it became obvious they were fake but the seller was quite willing to let me believe (or so he thought) for some time they were original. He confessed he had made them when it became obvious I had some knowledge of the No4T.

Are you referring to me? My table was next to John's and it was 'several' years ago that I had several No4(T)s on a table out there.

I'm afraid I didn't "confess" to making any No4(T)s...I wish I could though.

Perhaps you are mis-remembering my explaining the renumbering of that bracket? IIRC the other rifles did not have scopes or brackets.

Those rifles have mostly gone to other collectors now, some perhaps even as well-informed as you, and so far none of them have complained about their "fake" No4(T)s...

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[No4Mk1(T)]

The Long, tall ,bearded drink of water you guys are referencing.......

I'm not referring to any one person as I do not know the name of the person I talked to at the gunshow.

Are you referring to me? My table was next to John's and it was 'several' years ago that I had several No4(T)s on a table out there.

I have no idea who you are. Would that be John R to whom you are referring? I have corresponded with him via email a few times but to the best of my knowledge I have never met him in person.

I'm afraid I didn't "confess" to making any No4(T)s...I wish I could though.

If you didn’t confess then it wasn’t you. It’s that simple. The person I’m referring to told me outright that he had installed a few sets of reproduction pads onto bog stock No4Mk1s. I have no idea if the seller was trying to test ether my knowledge or the quality of his work but he allowed our conversation to go on until I said I felt the rifles were reproductions. I have no idea if said seller would have made a full discourser had I made an offer to purchase without demonstrating at least a basic knowledge of what I was looking at.

Perhaps you are mis-remembering my explaining the renumbering of that bracket? IIRC the other rifles did not have scopes or brackets.

IMHO renumbering of components to match a collectable rifle is fakery. Even if you disclose what you have done to the new owner what is to stop that person from passing it off as original? (granted this is unlikely being that you sold it to John R).

Those rifles have mostly gone to other collectors now, some perhaps even as well-informed as you, and so far none of them have complained about their "fake" No4(T)s...

I’m happy for both you and the buyers of your rifles however don’t you think it might be prudent to at least find out if it was you I was referring to or criticize my Enfield knowledge before making public comments like this? At no point did I say that “you” were selling “Fake” No4Mk1(T) rifles.
My comments above were simply relating what I experienced on one occasion. I have no idea if the person to whom I spoke and was offering the humped T’s and the person that Terry is referring are the same person.

[terryinvictoria]

My comments were based on conversations in the Victoria area with Enfield affectianadoes.

Secondly I never named anyone in the posts and would not. I do not make a habit of asking people in the gun world their names and therefore I have no names to give here nor would I post them if I new the individuals (ever)

a) first- I was told that some T rifles have been made up on the west coast over the past 10 years or so this was by a fellow that does have the knowledge and has inspected a few of these at gun shops and shows.

b) I was told that someone in the Victoria area was making (described as follows) exact reproductions of both pads and scope brackets so exact no one would be able to tell the difference. I did not ask the name or who this was.
I did find that hard to believe but thought it worth mentioning to the crowd here based on what I was later told.

c) An enfield owner said that some T rifles were going to be made in the Victoria area. I have no knowledge more than that. He said that an individual was going to make up some rifles with some made up brackets on No4 receivers?

d) As to the rifle at the gun show it was questionable, and I have no idea of whether this was you I certainly did not identify you nor did I give a name nor would I do so. when I questioned the rifle the owner seemed to back off or so I thought about the rifle's originality. Again I do not know you, nor do I know your name.

e) Putting all these together I think most would agree it is better to air the concerns that to sit back and watch some fellow collectors be skinned if in fact they are exposed to some fake rifle.

f) I am not an expert in the T world and have never said I am. I do however question the intent when considering the chatter in the Enfield community about a Fake T rifles in the community and more possibly being assembled. AND I do not know who this is, they could be buying parts from anyone or anywhere. I do not know in any way if this was you nor did I say that you were involved seeing as I do not know you as far as I know. It is certainly possible you do not know who might be doing this either.

Putting everything together though --it is better to mention it rather than sit back and watch.

Regards
Terry

[Amatikulu]

Before this turns into a thread that I need to close, "everyone take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard"

Nothing improper has taken place.....................YET in this thread

No person has been accused of anything.

Let's leave it that way unless someone has incontrovertible evidence (and it had better be good)

This has just been a discussion that has highlighted the well known term Caveat Emptor -let the buyer beware.