Ross Bayonet acquistion and question

[Flying10uk]

It's fairly rare to see any type of Ross bayonet offered for sale here in the U.K., only ever noticed a handful for sale, and so when offered a pair recently I snapped them up. Does anyone know if anything was done to the Ross bayonets that were supposed to have been used as fighting knives such as cutting off the muzzle rings for example? When a dealer offers me a bayonet that's incomplete/damaged and the explanation is that it's been used as a fighting knife it makes me automatically sceptical.

Is anyone able to confirm that all Ross bayonets started off as uncut as suggested by Rucker which would seem perfectly logical, please?

[browningautorifle]

Those were much after the fact. Things were done during wartime but the knives were made far after the war because of the availability of the bayonets. Don't buy the story...

[green]

As noted above the point profile change to the sharp style was started on factory production in Oct 1915.
Another point profile was the British which strongly resembled the P1907 bt profile.
"The Ross Rifle Story" has a good chapter on Ross bayonets.

[marysdad]

There is an early Mk. I bayonet pictured on my site, showing the odd muzzle ring that Carl referred to. Mine is missing the internal spring that fit inside the muzzle ring.

The 1941 scabbards were made in Canada as replacement stock by the Hugh Carson Co. Ltd., an Ottawa firm that, in peacetime, produced harnesses, trunks, and luggage.

[green]

There is an early Mk. I bayonet pictured on my site, showing the odd muzzle ring that Carl referred to. Mine is missing the internal spring that fit inside the muzzle ring.

The 1941 scabbards were made in Canada as replacement stock by the Hugh Carson Co. Ltd., an Ottawa firm that, in peacetime, produced harnesses, trunks, and luggage.

All MkI Ross bts had the ring extension.

[Surpmil]

The HCCo. is probably Hugh Carson of Ottawa who made a lot of service leather in both wars, including things like the cases for the Canadian issue Warner & Swasey Mod. 1913 scopes. The date could be when the scabbard was made, or just when Carson inspected and/or refurbished it.

IIRC the bayonets began with the rounded tip and the pointed tip was a modification originating in France when the original shape was found inefficient at penetrating Prussian great coats. ;-)

The bayonets converted to knives are easy to spot because very little bayonet was left when they were finished. The steel was said to be of particularly good quality.

[browningautorifle]

The HCCo. is probably Hugh Carson of Ottawa

That would be correct.

The bayonets converted to knives are easy to spot because very little bayonet was left when they were finished. The steel was said to be of particularly good quality.

The shortage of hunting knives was protracted and they were professionally converted. Many had a leather scabbard as well. PAL Tool did them... Ross Rifle Bayonet PAL fighting knife - Daggers/knives - Collector's Source, Military Collectibles Online

[RossM10]

Just to add to the thread:- my example is a Patt 11 and dated 11/16. Underneath the pommel is stamped 25MX over 477. Any ideas?
The grips have only the acceptance mark of a crown over 4.
The blade tip seems to have been lightly re-profiled - the curve is flatter than the "uncut" examples posted but nothing like the almost straight line of the "cut" versions.
The scabbard is stamped Mk 1, nothing else is legible.
One thing missing is the frog. As the likelyhood of finding an original is virtually nil, does anyone know of a source of reproductions?

[browningautorifle]

One thing missing is the frog.

In many cases you'll find a canvass frog slipped over the leather scabbard...try that?

[Flying10uk]

I wouldn't have thought that it would cost the earth to get a saddler to make you a replacement leather frog. The problem would be knowing the size of the belt loop of a MK1 which we've now established is smaller than that of the MK2.