Removing Black Leather Dye from Brown Leather

[peregrinvs]

Hi,

I suspect the answer is "you can't", but I was wondering if anyone has any clever tips or tricks for removing black leather dye from brown leather?

I have acquired a British Pattern 1939 leather pistol ammunition pouch with this very problem. I *think* the leather is pigskin.

Thanks,

Mark

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[gunner]

Hi Mark,

the most leather colours are based on methylated spirits. You can try it, but i think it will only remove the upper layers, except you will dip it completely into methylated spirits. But i have no experiences how the leather and the other materials will react.

Regards

Gunner

[JBS]

Results using lacquer thinner can be very good, as long as you understand that it will remove everything from the leather including the required oils in the leather. These oils must be restored.

[gew8805]

It can't be done and, as suggested above, it shouldn't be attempted, especially since what you have is a fairly rare piece of "kit". The leather version of P39 equipment was designed and made as a stop gap when quantities of web equipment were in short supply. They were often used for "Dad's Army" (the home guard) and some units required that their equipment be died black. Best to leave it as is, depending on the dye used and how well it penetrated the leather, you would have to remove half the thickness from the surface and then a whole quart of pure neatsfoot oil wouldn't restore what you have lost.

[Claven2]

You can lighten it but probably never completely remove it. I would get some cotton swabs and a pair of stainless lockable foreceps. Wear rubber gloves. Lay the leather out on a smooth clean wooden surface and saturate the swab with the spirits. For those who live in areas that don;t sell methylated spirits, it's just another word for pure alcohol with a slight amount of methanol added to it so that alcoholics won't drink it. Pure alcohol will also work. Anyhow, saturate the ball and slowly mop the surface, one small area at a time. Use dry clean paper towels to dry the leather after each spot application. This will take a LONG time and will not be a 100% solution but should improve things. You will neet to revitalize the leather afterwards - I would suggest Pecar's or a light application of neatsfoot. And I do mean light - don't saturate the leather.

[peregrinvs]

An update: I tried white spirit to see if it would act as a solvent on the dye, but it had little effect. So that being the case I have decided not to risk damaging it with any more aggressive cleaning methods and leave it as it is. I have given it a light coating of Pecards and the leather is shiny and supple. Hopefully a nicer example will turn up at some point - it is to go with a P1939 belt and pistol case I already have.

Mark

[gew8805]

Glad you decided to stop, P39 kit is pretty rare stuff and is only now being appreciated for what it is. While you may prefer the original color sometimes we have to live with what we have. As I said above, some units were required to blacken their kit and once leather is blackened it is blackened forever, nothing can remove it. And please remember, whenever possible leave the leather as is but if something needs to be added to replace lost oils, a light coating of PURE neatsfoot oil is far better than Pecards.

[Johnny Peppers]

And please remember, whenever possible leave the leather as is but if something needs to be added to replace lost oils, a light coating of PURE neatsfoot oil is far better than Pecards.

As an educational opportunity, could you provide information as to how neatsfoot oil is far better than Pecards? I have only been using Pecards for 30 plus years, but never too old to learn.

[gew8805]

As an educational opportunity, could you provide information as to how neatsfoot oil is far better than Pecards? I have only been using Pecards for 30 plus years, but never too old to learn.

Certainly. For short term use on non-archival materials (those without historic importance) Pecards is a fine product. Work boots, belts for everyday use, reenactors' accoutrements and other common items for everyday use can be safely treated with Pecards and most other modern "preservatives" with no damage whatsoever, as a matter of fact the use of a treatment like Pecards (in all it's different forms) will benefit working leather that will be used and, at the end of it's useful life, disposed of. But for antique leather that should be preserved for the future do as little as possible and that most certainly means that you should avoid putting petroleum products on them. Yes, Pecards contains petroleum products, read the label. An historic item like a Civil War Cartridge box or belt, a WW1 leather jerkin or Leather P14 gear and German accoutrements should not have the Pecards treatment. This also includes your grandfather's knife scabbard that may be passed on to your grandchildren.

30 years is not a long time for an inanimate object, it will long outlive you. Careful handling of old leather will do far more in protecting it than will slathering goo on it. Keep it in an area with controlled humidity (60% - 70%) and keep it out of direct sunlight and at a constant temperature. If on display in an open area, keep it clean – wipe off dust. If you absolutely have to do something to re-moisturize the leather, use PURE neatsfoot oil but only a light amount, too much oil will damage the leather by causing swelling of the grain and eventual hardening bringing about cracking and crazing.

[Johnny Peppers]

Yes, 30 years is a not a long time, as I have a Randall knife sheath my father treated regular with Neatsfoot oil starting about 1973, and today the leather is coming apart. It never had any Pecards used on it, and no need to bother today as the leather is too far gone. Neatsfoot oil is good for your boots that you probably won't wear over 5 years, but not your prized leather.
The two Randall knives shown below have each had their sheaths treated with a preservative. The top knife was made about 1960 and has had Pecards used on it for the last 30 or so years. The bottom knife was bought for my dad about 1973 and he treated it with Neatsfoot oil.
It is recognized that Neatsfoot oil darkens the leather.