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  1. #1
    Member USMC5150's Avatar
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    Saginaw Carbine

    New to the forum, but am impressed with the knowledge base here. I thought I would share the known history of this rifle within my family.
    This well-loved M1icon Carbine was a gift to my father sometime in the mid 60's. The original, (yes, I said original), stock was rumored to have bullet holes in it from a Japaneseicon machine gun which had been plugged with some type of metal, maybe brass from what I can remember. It was rarely fired when I was a child, and spent most of its post war life in an upstairs closet at my grandparents house. I left for the service when I was 18, and didn't think too much about it until I saw a barrel of used carbine stocks in a gunshop in Oceanside, CA. I think they were 25 bucks at the time. Picked the best of the bunch knowing nothing of cartouche marks or the like, and sent it home to my dad. Flash forward a few more years and I am home again, going to school on the government dime, and spending time at the local range which I was a new member of. I dusted off the old carbine and noticed the new stock AND a type 3 bayonet band on the rifle. Again I, and apparently my father, did not appreciate the collector value of the piece, and proceeded to put many rounds downrange until the highly polished bolt and bolt face exploded when a round fired out of battery and sent shrapnel flying. (I DO appreciate ear and eye protection, so no harm to me, except for my shorts). I was able to luckily find a replacement Saginaw bolt in the venerable Shotgun News publication, and was back in business within a few weeks.
    This went on for a while until the whole "boy meets girl" stuff happened and I settled down in VA. The carbine sat again in the closet now cellar gunsafe with other various weapons for almost 20 more years...
    My dear father is now in the twilight of his run, and his faculties are not as sharp as they once were. During my latest visit, I was asked to bring all the firearms home with me, all of which are going through a deep cleaning due to years of being locked in a safe in the somewhat climate-controlled basement. It's funny how certain objects bring you back to another time and place, and cleaning these with my youngest son is now providing another memory for me, and hopefully him to reminisce on in his later years.
    But back to the carbine... It seems to be all original EXCEPT for the barrel band and stock. I was hoping to find them stuffed in the rafters, waiting to be reunited, but alas, I think they are lost to time. Enjoy the photos, and thanks for having me.
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    Really Senior Member jimb16's Avatar
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    You may be right about it being all original except for the stock and barrel band. It does appear to be an early Grand Rapids Saginaw Gear with likely Irwin Pederson parts included. You would need to do further disassembly to check markings on all of the parts; IP or S'G'. Even the hammer spring looks like an early spring and the hammer appears to be an early dogleg. (marking on the other side). You should be able to "restore" this carbine at a fairly reasonable cost IF you want to. Probably under $300.
    When they tell you to behave, they always forget to specify whether to behave well or badly!

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    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    Collector value? Not all that much....Memories? Priceless. Enjoy the ones from the past and create some new ones for the future!

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    Thread Starter
    Thanks for the replies! I'll include a few more shots of the stampings. Pretty much all are "SG" except for the previously mentioned replacement parts, and the barrel is a 9-43 Underwood example.

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    Your rear sight base is marked the same as mine. Take a look for a marking on the top of the sear - you won't have to disassemble any further to see it, but if you do, put the hammer pin in from the left side. There should be a marking on the front of the magazine catch too - might be an IP. The handguard and buttplate are correct. I'd like to see a picture looking down from the top to get a better look at the slide and the bolt. Check the left side of the front sight for a stamped number. I like what I'm seeing! - Bob

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    USGI - The mag release is barely there but I can make out B IP, which is good for this rifle. There is nothing I can make out on the front side of the sight. Worn pretty smooth.

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    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    M2 replacement stock?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singer B View Post
    M2 replacement stock?
    I’m not sure. Was in a barrel full of them 30 years ago when I found it. No markings at all on the wood.

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    $25 for the M2 stock might have been a bit high 30 years ago, but would be at least $100 now for a nice one. That one looks like it could be birch. An original stock now, in fair shape would run at least $500-$600, if not considerably higher. A lot of the S'G''s have an "extra" notch on the back of the trigger, but I'm told some didn't. That bolt you replaced was likely stamped S'G' and may have also had an ordnance bomb on the lug. Is that an "N" behind the front sight blade? Look really close for a number near the front sight pin on the left side. It might show in a picture -I'm guessing it could be a "7". The recoil plate is probably marked on the bottom where it meets the wood. User TenOC here, would probably like to add your s/n to his list. He can tell you the next higher and next lower s/n's he's found closest to yours. You can find his Saginaw S/N thread down the list a bit. - Bob

    Last edited by USGI; 09-17-2020 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Removed an error re: markings on the bolt lug

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    Contributing Member W5USMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singer B View Post
    Collector value? Not all that much
    I think this carbine has enough original S'G' parts on it to make it pretty valuable to most, especially SG Prime collectors. I know I'd love to own it!
    Welcome to the forum USMC5150!
    Last edited by W5USMC; 09-17-2020 at 11:13 AM.

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